Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

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tmacklin
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#11 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by tmacklin »

The more I read, listen and watch, the more I agree with Luke Strawalker....We Are Screwed! Clinton is a Marxist and Trump is a Fascist. Two sides of the same damn coin and anyway you flip it you will still get a totalitarian dictator.

So name your poison boys and girls and keep me posted.
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#12 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by Joe Wooten »

bernomatic wrote:Keep dreaming away lil GH, hoping that Bugs or Woody could come true. When you grow up, and come to the realization that voting for Bugs Bunny, or voting for Woody Wood Pecker or voting for Gary Anderson is in reality voting FOR Hillary Rodham Clinton, and that you have just helped elect someone that will finish the job Obama has started, don't come crying on my shoulder.

When the TPP makes it more economical for GM and the other car makers to use Indian and Pakistani Engineers over in Asia whom only require a fraction of the pay your hedonistic lifestyle requires, when the only traveling you can do is through the company to go over to a third world country and teach your replacement; You may begin to have second thoughts about the conservative candidate.

I have already heard rumors circling about my company of principals looking into using CAD draftsman from overseas third world countries, much like a lot of the call centers are now set up. The only thing stopping that type of transition is that the licensed surveyors don't want to have to deal with language barriers.
My company outsourced a lot of IT work to India back in 1999. For the next 4 years they had an endless stream of botched codes that had to be re-written by the old guys under a contract job, until finally a new CEO pulled the plug and convinced the old IT folks to come back and re-constitute the old department.
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#13 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by bernomatic »

tmacklin wrote:
Clinton is a Marxist and Trump is a Fascist. Two sides of the same damn coin and anyway you flip it you will still get a totalitarian dictator.
I can't say whether Hillary is a Marxist, I wouldn't want to delve into that mind to try and understand :? Bernie Sanders was Socialist at a minimum, that is clear. The question is what type. But he is gone so on to Hillary...

The full definition of Marxism given by the Merriam Webster dictionary is
: the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society.
Chew over that for a bit, then relax your mind with the simple definition of Marxism given by the Merriam Webster dictionary
: the political, economic, and social theories of Karl Marx including the belief that the struggle between social classes is a major force in history and that there should eventually be a society in which there are no classes.
Now for some discussion, the uber geeks :ugeek: tell us that one possible end to the universe is "heat death"
However, once the universe reaches heat death, everything everywhere will be the same temperature. That means nothing interesting will ever happen again.

Every star will die, nearly all matter will decay, and eventually all that will be left is a sparse soup of particles and radiation. Even the energy of that soup will be sapped away over time by the expansion of the universe, leaving everything just a fraction of a degree above absolute zero.
-How will the universe end, and could anything survive? http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150602 ... iverse-end
In this demise, all matter finally becomes identical, basically a mass of hydrogen atom soup filling the universe.

The parallel to Marxism is obvious and psuedo-scientific tinkerers with society that hold with Marxism believe this to be the final resolve of mankind, all people just become a homogeneous blob...... except of course for the select few who are the leaders. There is one obvious flaw in this theory (besides the leaders being there of course). Just as with the peaceniks who believe that war can be ended if everyone just loves one another, all it takes is for one individual to "awaken" and thus ruin the Eden of society. In Marxism, the answer is to watch for these awakening individuals and to kill them before they have a chance of "disrupting society", which explains the large number of deaths in the peaceful workers paradises of the communist nations of the 20th century.

Is this Hillary? I'll let someone else discuss it.

On the other hand
The full definition of Facism given by the Merriam Webster dictionary is
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>
The simple definition of Facism given by the Merriam Webster dictionary is
: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government
: very harsh control or authority
and an added definition from the Urban Dictionary
The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.
1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.
Using the Merriam Webster definitions first and their second definitions, that could describe any father dealing with his children. The simple RSO at a model rocket launch falls under that definition and is thus a fascist pig. But do we really want all authoritarians to be known and called "fascist"? Would you want some strange rocket with large fins on the front being launched with no review by anyone? (OK maybe GH) There must be more to the definition.

One could, if just listening to the mainstream media, believe that Trump is an isolationist and nationalist, just listen to what the talking heads tell you. If one listens to Donald Trump however, one hears things about getting rid of common core education and sending those decisions back to the state and local levels. Hardly the choices of some dictator who would hold tight the reins of power. Also his plan to empower our veterans with the ability to chose other options in their healthcare needs besides using the VA. Again not sounding like someone hellbent on holding all the cards in Washington D.C.
But what about trading with the world? Listen to him (Trump). He doesn't want to end world trade, that would harm him in his private sector dealings. His goals are to make trading with the rest of the world fairer.....FOR US! Would someone please explain to me how a company like Estes, which has a limited scope and a small profit margin for their kits could find it more economical to have their kits produced in China and shipped across the world? It just doesn't make sense. What does make sense is making a fairer trade partner where our products going into a country aren't placed under such heavy tariffs or restrictions that we can't compete there.

I could go on, but if it isn't clear that Trump is not a fascist by now, no matter what I say will not persuade you otherwise and you will continue listening to the talking heads of the main stream media spewing forth their "wisdom" because they know bettor than you.
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#14 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by bernomatic »

While people watching the Donald's speech felt positive, the talking heads felt negative. why?

How the media is portraying Trump's convention speech
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#15 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by tmacklin »

Hope and Change, Version 2.0 This is how he views himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRvYwOHKJPk (Cut to the chase at 37 seconds.)

You like him, vote for him. I'd rather be fishing.
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#16 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by tmacklin »

There are alternatives. Use them or lose them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL_qSDO0nu8
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#17 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by bernomatic »

Johnson and Weld are an option, no doubt about it.
The one line from the video I loved was,

"...and if after four years you decide that you don't like peace prosperity or freedom, you can always vote a Trump or Hillary back into office again."

Now who caught the flub??????

Anyone?

Besides these gentlemen, I am sure, being fine politicians, who have done a lot for their states (so has Governor Pence BTW), they are just that, politicians.

In an election were there is so much riding on who wins the office (due to an open seat on the Supreme Court, OPEN SEAT, no doubts) can we afford to "vote our conscience" in this election? I have, and probably will in the future, vote for a dark horse , third party candidate whom I agree with on principals. This is not that election.

Of course there is always hope that Trump's success with the grassroots and opposition by the establishment will split the GOP, at which point who will become the dominant second party is up for grabs.

The main thing to remember, at least until Mr. Johnson's numbers increase significantly (I would say polling at 15%-20%) is that a vote for Johnson is vote for Hillary/Trump, whichever you detest more. Staying home and not voting (even if you do vote for Johnson) is even worse as you have chosen not to perform YOUR responsibility of voting, will still retaining your rights.
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#18 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by bernomatic »

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#19 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by tmacklin »

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What a lovely foursome! Anybody for a round of golf?
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#20 Re: Does the choice of Mike Pence as Trump's VP make a difference?

Post by Ghrocketman »

I will NEVER vote for anyone that does not pledge to return the power-base to the 99% at the EXPENSE of the 1% that has been screwing all of us over since that PIECE OF $HIT ronnie reagan OCCUPIED the oval office in 1981.
BERNIE OR BUST !
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Always MAYHEM, always !
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