Very Taxing time in Ohio

Ways that our tax dollars are spent for good (really?) and for bad.
Post Reply
User avatar
Commander
Space Commander
Space Commander
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed, 30 Mar 16, 01:49 am
Location: On the Starport

#1 Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by Commander » Thu, 07 Apr 16, 15:11 pm

So I recently had my tax returns done including my state returns, here in Ohio. I ended up with a healthy (by state standards, not federal, which with all the credits can get absurd :roll:) return. On a per paycheck basis, it came out to around $20 extra being withheld from each of my checks.

I consulted with my accountant, and he said I should check how many withholding allowances I had and try adjusting them. So I went to payroll at work and asked about my withholding and to get a state form to change it. To my chagrin, according to the form you could not legally change the number of exemptions on your withholding without a reason (birth, marriage, death etc.) I had the amount I was legally allowed to have, 4, but something was amiss. :? I talked to the payroll person and she pulled up the bi-weekly withholding tables for the state. Here is where some very astonishing revelations occurred.

First: For my pay level, which is way, way below that of the "poverty stricken" GHRocketman, even with the maximum of ten deductions for payroll, I would get $17.54 withheld from each check! :o
withholding table 1.JPG
withholding table 1.JPG (190.61 KiB) Viewed 2451 times
Second; That again with the maximum allowable deductions of ten, I would have to make less than $13,500 yearly :( before nothing would be withheld from a paycheck. Substantially less for a family of four.


Third: Most people are really ignorant about payroll taxes. When discussing what I wanted to do with the payroll person, she was like "well you have to pay your taxes. We each have to give our share." and other liberal moronic platitudes. When I tried to explain the concept that "our taxes" weren't due until April and that the payroll stuff was just to be to keep it from hurting so much in April, and not to give the government more than my "fair share", she just looked perplexed like I was speaking Klingon.

What this amounts to is me (and plenty more in Ohio) are giving Governor (and Presidential candidate) John Richard Kasich an interest free loan to "balance the budget with. This is mandatory and there is no way that I found to legally lower the amount.

One last thought for any Kasich supporters out there, He also apparently has helped get an earned income credit for Ohio. Yes he is very big brother in that "I'm with the government and here to help" way.
Attachments
withholding table 2.JPG
withholding table 2.JPG (270.18 KiB) Viewed 2451 times
Commander
Starport Sagitta
NAR No.97971

User avatar
luke strawwalker
Space Vice Admiral
Space Vice Admiral
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu, 07 Apr 16, 04:45 am

#2 Re: Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by luke strawwalker » Thu, 07 Apr 16, 16:16 pm

I went through this a lot when I was driving a bus for the local school district. Seemed like every time I turned around they were LOWERING our withholding automatically. That REALLY pissed me off because then come April we'd get socked with a big tax bill (fed-- no state income taxes in Texas) that we didn't have the money to pay or had to nuke our savings to shell out. The worst was when they did all that "stimulus" bullshit, handing out lollipops and candy that everybody thought was SO great, so they ran and bought new bigscreen tv's and other unnecessary bullshit, not realizing they'd have to PAY IT BACK because basically it was just an "automatic gubmint loan" of your own tax money back to you that they would then WANT BACK at some future time. Sorta like mob protection money being lent back to you to keep you from going broke on them, so they could get it back and more besides later. (We put ours in savings for that reason, knowing that we'd have to pay it back later and didn't want to come up short).

Because the gubmint was constantly trying to prop up the economy and keep things from looking as bad as they really were post 2008, they were constantly messing with the withholding taxes to "keep that money in the economy". Now, for most people, it might not be that big of an issue. For me, being self-employed on the farm, I get the joy of paying DOUBLE social security taxes in addition to whatever standard rate income taxes I owe the feds, since being self-employed means you DON'T have an employer paying "their half" of your social security taxes, so *I* have to pay double to cover BOTH halves as a farmer. TOTAL rip-off to support a gubmint Ponzi scheme, but anyway... That's half the reason I was working a second job (as most farmers have to do), to defray the tax bills! At any rate, I wanted my withholding high enough so that it covered not only the income tax, but also the social security taxes on the job, as well as the double social security taxes on farm income from "self employment taxes". The feds constantly screwing with the withholding really f***ed things up good, lemme tell ya. Seemed like at least 2-3 times a year, we'd get something in our box from payroll saying that the feds lowered withholding AGAIN and if we needed it adjusted, come by the payroll office and talk to Connie. I got sick and tired of going in, so I went in to Connie and had her simply take $40 bucks off the top of EVERY check as withholding REGARDLESS of the gubmint shenanigans with the withholding rates so my taxes would be paid and I'd get a refund.

Yeah, I know, the tax lady was kinda PO'd that I withheld so much, said the IRS doesn't like having to issue big refunds, tax free loan to the gubmint and all that bullshit. Well, I don't like getting hit with a big tax bill that then I have to BORROW money to pay, either! So, screw the gubmint; they want to rob from me and then gripe about what "denominations" of bills I give them?? I don't think so... They can get the money up front, consider it my "contribution" in giving them an interest-free loan for the year (which hell given the shitty interest rates that money wouldn't earn enough in the bank to buy a steak dinner anyway, so not like I'm losing anything-- I don't play the gambling casinos-- err, stock market or other bullshit "investments" which are just legalized theft... I mean "gambling") and then at the end of the year, depending on how well (or how poorly, which is more often the case) we did on the farm, I either get back a little refund or a bigger one. BUT, at least we get back a REFUND and don't have to eat peanut butter for a couple months and nuke our savings to pay off the thieves in Washington because we came up short because of their f***ing games they play with the tax withholding to prop up a doomed economy in slow-motion collapse.

Later! OL J R :)
My MUNIFICENCE is BOUNDLESS, Mr. Bond...

User avatar
bernomatic
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue, 29 Mar 16, 03:55 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

#3 Re: Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by bernomatic » Thu, 07 Apr 16, 21:28 pm

I can understand the reason for you wanting to get a refund. But I believe that is just where the problem is. Everyone likes getting that chunk of change back at the beginning of the year. Thing is, if it was your mechanic overcharging throughout the year, then saying at the end of the year, "I was checking my yearly receipts and it turns out I overcharged you a thousand bucks" :shock: I doubt you would be as considerate. :evil:

We often say we don't want the government in our affairs, but in regards to the preemptive strike on our finances, we will gladly give till it hurts, so that later we do't have to be responsible for coming up with a chunk of money. Besides we never miss what we don't get in the first place, even if it were due to us. A radio personality stated at one time that employees would look at the withholding taxes a lot differently if we were given the full amount of our payroll (including the employer portion, which includes a lot more than just Social Security, add unemployment and workmen's compensation to name a few.) then had to proceed to individual windows to take the cash from our hands and give it back to the system.

It would be far better to set up a bank account specifically for paying the taxes then depositing the amount yourself. Then you don't havee to worry anout Peggy down in payroll adjusting the amount of withholding for better or worse. I know that defeats the feeling of sudden wealth you get at the end of the year, but that is just a transitory feeling anyway. Add to that the sudden sinking feeling you would get if no matter how much you had withheld, you got nothing back :shock: :?

The whole reason this came to my attention this year, was because Mother of all Rockets was taking some classes at a local university. The short story is that her financial aid was revoked after she was well into the semester. After trying to make payments, but not having the available cash, this year, the state (it was a state university) kept all of my state "return" to pay the outstanding tuition fees. Not result, the car repairs sorely needed will have to wait a bit longer. Now I'm not saying that the money isn't owed and blah, blah, blah, but if the car was in more dire straights and we 100% relied upon it to get us to work (think of a farmer and tractor, Jeff) we would be even deeper in the hole and more *oops you said word #1 out of luck.

If on the other hand, I had diligently put a certain amount aside in a special account I had control over, the taxes would be paid and I could have gotten the car repaired (or bought a new /used one) and paid against the tuition fees as was possible, those being the less detrimental to the stability of the family.

This however means that I have to claim responsibility for my tax bills and payments and isn't the easy "painless" path of just letting the government deal with it.
Chief Cook -n- bottle washer

User avatar
luke strawwalker
Space Vice Admiral
Space Vice Admiral
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu, 07 Apr 16, 04:45 am

#4 Re: Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by luke strawwalker » Fri, 08 Apr 16, 04:18 am

Meh, whatever works for ya.

Thing is, we can all bitch and moan and complain all we want, and yeah sure everybody would know EXACTLY how much they were paying in taxes if there were no withholding and it was all due at the end of the year (or tax day or whatever) BUT, 1) it would make absolutely no frigging difference whatsoever-- the unwashed masses could scream and holler all they want and the gubmint would STILL waste money and tax the living *oops you said word #2 out of us, and 2) about 3/4 of the country wouldn't have the flippin' money to pay their damn taxes and would be in arrears to the gubmint, most on a permanent basis.

As a young man in high school and just out of high school, when I was only getting a thin share of the farm income, I was in the shitty position more than a couple years of owing more in self-employment tax than I had to my name. Lemme tell you it ABSOLUTELY SUCKS having to BORROW money against *this* years income to pay f***ing taxes on LAST year's shitty income, meaning even if I had a good year (good crops and good prices mean a better share, hence more income) most of it would be money I'd never see as it all went to pay that year's taxes AND the loan for LAST years taxes.

SO, like I said, I'll take higher withholding every and not ending up owing anything and hopefully getting a nice chunk of change BACK over having a few more shekels in my pocket at the end of the month to waste and then finding out later we owe a shitload of money we don't have and having to BORROW to pay the f***ing taxes, or nuking our savings and having to eat peanut butter for a month or two to make ends meet. Screw that! Besides, like I said, setting that money aside in the bank to pay the taxes later gains you virtually nothing anyway-- there was a time when just the INTEREST on the gas well money my Grandmother saved more than payed her living expenses for the month AND paid part of the farm expenses. BUT that was a LONG time ago when interest rates were GOOD (decades ago) and when a significant part of the economy was the "savers"... now that we live in an almost universally debt-driven economy, there's NO incentive to "save" beyond personal preference-- certainly not for any interest income. I wouldn't play the friggin' market even if I had a few million in the bank-- I'm philosophically opposed to the gambling houses on Wall Street and don't believe in rewarding their bad behavior playing their game by their rules... like any casino game the odds all favor the house anyway-- they make more than they pay out, or they wouldn't be in business. Just a nest of damn crooks IMHO, just like gubmint, which is why they're bailing them out all the time. Anyway, that's just me, and I know, "that's how our economy works" yadda, yadda, yadda, etc and who cares. I don't like how our economy works anyway.

Thing is, the taxes have to be paid, so IMHO the key is making it as painless as possible IMHO. I realize that's probably counter to what a lot of people think and how they choose to live their lives, and that's on them.

Later! OL J R :)
My MUNIFICENCE is BOUNDLESS, Mr. Bond...

User avatar
luke strawwalker
Space Vice Admiral
Space Vice Admiral
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu, 07 Apr 16, 04:45 am

#5 Re: Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by luke strawwalker » Fri, 08 Apr 16, 04:26 am

BTW, sorry for your current economic problems. I know that sucks.

I just had $1300 worth of work done on my farm truck last November to get it to pass the damn stupid smog check inspection so I could get my tags, and last month paid $700 for new catalytic converters for Betty's 95 Roadmaster so it'd pass the treadmill test for her tags, now the AC compressor went out last Sunday on her way to a school thing she had to attend so that'll probably be another $600 or so minimum to get it fixed. BUT, they're both paid for and we keep them pretty well maintained, so I can live with some repairs-- That $1300 repair bill on the truck wouldn't make 3 monthly notes on a newer used one, and the $600 on the car wouldn't make even 2 months of notes on a newer car. Hell of it is, nowdays you can trade for a newer car and that doesn't really mean *oops you said word #1, because even newer cars (even brand spanking new ones, let alone newer used) can nickel and dime you to death with expensive electronic and computer problems or other component issues. Cars and trucks are built crappier every year IMHO-- more designed-in "gotchas" designed to fail and make money for the company and dealerships in parts and repairs, or just designed and built CHEAP. Basically the car companies don't give a rat's ass about the customer anymore-- they're ONLY interested in the customer being happy buying a NEW car and trading it when the warranty is up, after that, the faster it falls apart the better...

Then of course they price them out the wazoo anymore. No thanks-- I'll drive what I got til it falls to pieces.

Later! OL J R :)
My MUNIFICENCE is BOUNDLESS, Mr. Bond...

User avatar
Commander
Space Commander
Space Commander
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed, 30 Mar 16, 01:49 am
Location: On the Starport

#6 Re: Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by Commander » Fri, 08 Apr 16, 16:44 pm

I'm not trying to imply that you shouldn't adjust your withholding, just that you shouldn't have a large amount in a refund.

The main thing was that there was no way to adjust my withholding to within a reasonable level. The government was making a certain amount (think of it as overcharging) mandatory when they know full well that it will have to be returned in the spring.
Commander
Starport Sagitta
NAR No.97971

User avatar
luke strawwalker
Space Vice Admiral
Space Vice Admiral
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu, 07 Apr 16, 04:45 am

#7 Re: Very Taxing time in Ohio

Post by luke strawwalker » Sat, 09 Apr 16, 05:35 am

Ah, okay, I guess that got lost in the translation... LOL:) Not unknown for me to do that.

Yeah, I agree that really sucks. My tax lady said IRS is kinda shitty in that they want you to match your withholding AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE to your actual tax burden-- IOW, ideally they don't want you to end up owing them OR getting a refund. Well, la-tee-dah... and tough *oops you said word #1!

It's like our church, early every December they make a big hoopla about "purposing Sunday" when all the members are supposed to fill out cards with the total YEARLY amount that they intend to put in the offering for the next YEAR... Supposedly it's just for "budgeting reasons" so that the eldership can draw up a budget for the church's activities and make decisions on what efforts to support and how much support to give them, such as benevolence, overseas efforts, etc.

Umm-kay. I guess if you work in an office and make $150,000 a year and know EXACTLY how much you're going to be bringing home every week, as you have for years and presumably will for years to come, that's fine and dandy and gets people to thinking about it and making plans of their own. If you're a farmer and don't know if you're going to make ANYTHING until you actually make it, it's quite another story. SO, I just fold fold my card leaving it blank and toss it in the plate. My wife, a school teacher, who handles all our personal finances with my blessing anyway, can put whatever she wants, but I told her to remember a few things-- 1) they want the total YEARLY offering amount you plan to make... and 2) they pressure everyone to give their money for weekends they'll be out of town either before you leave or when you get back, which I personally don't believe in-- I was always taught you give your money wherever you happen to be going to church that week. At any rate, it then follows that we have to make certain "adjustments" to the TOTAL amount, because 1) working on the basic assumption of 52 Sundays per year, and 2) that we go to Indiana twice a year to visit Betty's family, which includes 2 weeks during Christmas break from school, and usually 4-5 weeks during the summer break, we should subtract SIX Sundays for that, then we usually go to the Frio RIver with my brother and his wife and all rent a cabin together for a long three-day weekend in the early fall, so that's another Sunday we're gone (7), plus there's Sundays we're out of town visiting other friends or families during the year, plus a few Sundays when we're all sick and can't make church, so figure another at least three for those, that brings us up to a total of at least 42 weeks when were actually in church, and probably more like 40 in actuality. SO, I basically told her "multiply whatever you plan to give PER WEEK by 40 and put that down on the card." Close enough for gubmint work... LOL:)

I've NEVER really had ANY idea how much I'd make on the farm until everything's all over, so that sort of 'structured nonsense" doesn't do a thing for me.

Later! OL J R :)
My MUNIFICENCE is BOUNDLESS, Mr. Bond...

Post Reply