Seems by all appearances that his already VERY lackluster customer service has deteriorated to the point where people have sent him money and gotten NOTHING in return for months on end, and cannot get ahold of him by phone or computer... and even if they do, usually only get vague promises and more waiting. Most have appealed to PayPal or their credit card companies for reimbursement.
I visited Red Arrow probably about 7 years ago now... I was at the MIL's in northern Indiana one day over summer vacation and on a lark (tired of listening to her and Betty talking about sewing quilts most likely) drove up to Michigan and checked out Red Arrow Hobbies store, and bought a mess of black cherries on the way back. His store was lackluster to say the least-- it looked like an old unkempt appliance store or hardware store. I parked and entered the entryway, through a glass door propped open by a chunk of concrete at the SW corner of the building. The entryway, which looked like a "mud-room" designed for a row of shopping carts, was filled head-high with stacks of boxes waiting to go out. At the opposite end of this entryway was a tiny office, crammed with paperwork out the gazoo, with a harried-looking woman working over the stacks of paperwork with kids running around her. Despite it being in the high 90's and very humid from nearby Lake Michigan that day, there was NO AC in the building and most of the lights were off, save for a few (about one over each aisle) and a light in the SW corner of the building where Dave was working on his computer, taking orders... I milled around the 5-6 aisles of old retail shelving units, and inspected the nice array of kits on the pegboard lining the north and east walls of the showroom, and picked out a few TLP and other kits I had been wanting. I checked out the aisle of homebrewing crap he had just for giggles, and stood at the SE end of the store counter by an open door to get a breath of hot, humid air, as it was stifling inside the otherwise uncooled store. I walked the length of the old-style glass-top display case, checking out the various tools and supplies and motor casings and reloads, and I noticed stacks and stacks of open boxes behind the counter, most with printouts taped to them with items crossed off and remaining items still listed-- orders yet to be filled where stuff was probably out of stock, waiting for the arrival of new supplies from the suppliers. I spoke with Dave and he was friendly, we even talked about his (then) fairly recent acquisition of Sheri's Hot Rockets (another vendor who was more than content to continue accepting other people's money for product they ordered from her after her nasty divorce from her then-husband and her relocation from Arizona (IIRC) to Hawaii, which she either filled with substandard remaining parts or never filled at all, and never refunded any of their money either from what I heard). He told me he paid quite a bit to get Sheri's remaining stock and molds and rights to the kits, only to find that most of what she had left was substandard junk. He showed me a mold she was STILL pulling Gemini capsules from, which had been worn SLICK on one side from extracting the molded capsules after the resin dried; he told me all her molds were that way to some extent or other. He also showed me the all new master he was having a buddy make for the Gemini Titan kit, to make new capsules with extra detail in the PROPER SCALE, which the SHR capsules were NOT properly scaled. He would use this new master to make new molds from which to make new capsules for the new kits. He also told me WHY she had stiffed so many people-- apparently the nice, turned aluminum "rocket nozzle" motor retainers that were a major selling point of the SHR kits, were made by a machinist buddy of her ex... he was providing them for her basically "at cost". After her and her ex had a very messy split, the buddy basically told her to go pound sand and didn't produce any more for her... so she sold kits til she was out of the nozzles and just stiffed everybody after that and kept the money. He told me he'd talked to a number of machinists, both professional and hobbyists, about making the nozzles for him and they all wanted about double what he could afford to pay for them with the existing kit prices (which were NOT cheap)... anywhere from $40-80 bucks EACH were prices he mentioned... he said he needed to get it down to about $20 a piece to be able to afford to put them in the kits at the existing prices and still make anything off them. I don't know how that ever worked out. I mentioned at the time I was a big Terribly Run Forum poster and asked if he was on the forums, which he answered with a definite "NO!". I paid for my stuff, and split.
On his Facebook page, he posted some stuff about his legal problems, and further down the page was talking about a new store and someone mentioned on the other forum about him putting excess inventory in storage but wanting extra to go hunting for it or whatever. Apparently somewhere in the last year or so he got his trailer stolen with several thousand dollars of product in it.
I can sympathize with his problems, but when one is buying from him, they're not buying into his problems-- they're buying PRODUCT... if he cannot or will not fulfill the order, then he SHOULD close up shop. Just continuing to take money and not issue refunds or send out product is just plain STEALING! It is dishonest and disreputable, and deplorable.
He says he has health problems that requires him "medicating" himself with marijuana. Sorry to hear that, but again, how is this anybody else's problem?? That is what led to his current legal morass... and again, how is that anybody else's problem?? It sounds to me like he's sunk into the kind of behavior that has companies fleeing these states that have legalized marijuana, due to the typical "stoner" behavior... they just "show up" and expect everything to be all right whether they can or will do a damn thing or not... sorry but the real world doesn't operate that way!! By all appearances he seems content to continue taking money, but doesn't give a damn if anybody who's ordered stuff from him ever gets ANYTHING in return, and he's blowing the money as fast as he gets it and won't refund anybody either...
Sorry, but I don't have ANY sympathy for folks that do stuff like that. It wasn't right when Sheri was doing it, stiffing folks from all over the place who were still ordering kits from her website (which she kept up and running even when she KNEW she had no intention of ever sending out anything, or who she sent "kits" made of substandard "junk" not worth what they'd paid for it). It wasn't right when those DAMN THIEVES at "Launch" magazine took the money and ran and folded up shop after pressing for folks to subscribe to their magazine, and didn't make ONE DAMN BIT OF EFFORT to refund ANYBODY ANY of the money they had paid (including me, who to support their effort to bring out a high-quality magazine, pre-paid a three year subscription and received about 2-3 issues after that before they folded and ran off with the money). They didn't even TRY to fulfill anything-- not with web content, shorty mags printed on cheap "newsprint" paper instead of the high-dollar glossy stuff they used for Launch, not by *partial* refund of money paid, not by sending one of their other magazines they printed instead, NOTHING-- they just took the money and ran like a DAMN COMMON THIEF, which is all they really are. And it's not right for Dave to be taking the money and running with it now and not issuing refunds or filling the orders as best he can with remaining stock, despite his legal or health problems.... maybe he can't do EVERYTHING-- but he could do SOMETHING.
I don't like to knock vendors; far from it. Rocketry has too few vendors as it is... but if my years in agriculture dealing with all sorts of different buyers and sellers and vendors and customers has taught me anything-- the only thing worse than NO DEAL is a BAD DEAL. Having someone promise you something, get paid, and then take off with the money and STEAL it from you while delivering NOTHING is a BAD deal... no two ways about it...
Later! OL J R
