DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

tmacklin
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#1 DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by tmacklin » Sun, 22 May 16, 20:15 pm

The Dallas Area Rocket Society http://www.dars.org/ was finally able to host a launch in north Texas after weeks of postponements because of rain as well as other setbacks. And Uncle Ted was there to enjoy it, sort of!

I flew two of my fleet, the first being an Estes Majestic given to me by my son on Christmas 2014. I flew it as a single stage on an Estes E15-6 engine which seemed to burn forever and went almost out of site. It was recovered without damage about 1500 feet west of the pads. Sorry, no pictures, but here is a flight as a two stage rocket from about 16 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tl8dQ6iNQ4

My next and last flight was my Estes Renegade D two stage rocket and I should have left it on the display shelf as this was far and away the best paint job I've ever done. I had built this sci-fi "stock", with 18mm engine mounts in both stages. I had a gut feeling about this, as with all the decorative fins and pods on the booster a single C6 engine did not have adequate thrust to achieve flight stability. The slight crosswind caused an immediate weather cocking and when the rocket staged resulted in a cruise missile which almost made it across the 20 acre lake about 400 yards east.....almost. The sustainer splashed down in the lake about 100 feet short of the eastern shore, floated for about 10 minutes and then sank to its watery grave. I did retrieve the booster section intact, save and except for a bit of mud on the fake pods.

I did manage to take a few pictures of the Renegade D on the pad and all in all it was a great day on God's Green Earth.
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Joe Wooten
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#2 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by Joe Wooten » Mon, 23 May 16, 00:20 am

Bummer about the splashdown.

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#3 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by tmacklin » Mon, 23 May 16, 01:55 am

Next time, I'll bring my fishing rods and some top water lures. If my rocket sinks before I can snag it maybe I can catch a nice largemouth bass.

If I can figure out a way to remove the 18mm engine mount and replace it with a 24mm mount, I may just do so. Or, even do a triple 18mm mount which fits right in a BT60 tube. (As I write this I'm thinking Dremel tool) I believe the sustainer body is a full 18" long BT60 and the only problem would be finding that oddball nose cone.

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#4 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by bernomatic » Mon, 23 May 16, 02:52 am

My sympathies for the early demise, but keeping as a shelf queen just wouldn't have set well. It needs to fly at least once. then you can retire it.

I know how you feel, the two times I launched my Renegade-D #2410 modified to the original #2109 version (two stager) I had similar results (without loosing the sustainer, but it still had massive injuries). here is a link to the first launch father's day launch of Renegade
In the video you can note the whipping winds, but I just had to launch that day. The only thing I am grateful for is that I loaded an A8-3 in the sustainer which means it didn't soar at treetop level for half a mile. After I repaired it, the next time I flew it it was less windy (I learn.... sometimes) but had the same results. I know my bird was heavier than what was quoted in the Estes info, by a lot. I also am considering reeming out the booster section and putting in a 24mm motor mount. Keep us updated on how it's going.


Just a minor clarification, Estes produced 3 Renegades. The one you have (had?) appears to be the #2109 which just said Renegade on the decals and was a two stager. The later version, #2410, had the name Renegade-D on the decals and was offered as a single stage version with a D engine. The first Renegade #1271 was offered in the '70s(?) and was a 3fnc rocket.
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#5 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by tmacklin » Mon, 23 May 16, 03:41 am

Bernie, I tried to view your Renegade video but it was marked "private".

BTW, my first stage booster sans engines weighs in at 74 grams/2.6 ounces. Add in 0.7 ounce for a C6-0 in the booster plus another 3.3 ounces on the sustainer and the total lift off weight is at least 6.5 ounces. Estes says the C6 is only good for 4.00 ounces maximum lift of weight. Maybe that's why they dropped the two stage version?

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#6 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by bernomatic » Mon, 23 May 16, 05:07 am

Thanks for letting me know, the video should be published now.

It seems to me I had similar numbers on mine. A quick search shows the #2410 had a weight per Estes on the package of 120.9 g Which means Estes seriously underestimated the final weight or had some problem with their scales.
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#7 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by tmacklin » Mon, 23 May 16, 18:23 pm

Thanks for making your Renegade launch video "public". Your video looks very much like my flight of this past Saturday with the rocket weather cocking (can I say that?) strongly into the wind. On a dead calm day, it might have worked but the flapping flags were saying "not today".

I have the package artwork and assembly manuals and the artwork insert says mine was indeed a model 2109. It also says it weighs 120.9 grams without motors but adds nothing for engines, wadding, glues or paint. A C6-0 and a C6-5 would add another 48 or so grams so we're really talking about 170 grams plus paint and wadding. That's at least 6 ounces and at least 2 ounces beyond Estes's own recommended L.O.W. for a C6 engine.

I'm going to rebuild the sustainer stage and modify the booster to accept a 24mm engine which I think will make a better flying bird. Piece of cake!

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#8 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by bernomatic » Mon, 23 May 16, 22:57 pm

I was wondering about your 3 engine cluster idea, but a couple of things came to mind why not to try it. From one of my first threads on YOLF, the discussion covered many power variations, including sticking engines in all those show tubes. Don't quote me, but IIRC the CP/CG relationship of the complete rocket was not adversely affected by all the added weight. What does start to become affected however is the weight of the booster for recovery. I have a feeling with all the added weight, fins and other accouterments would be snapping off at impact with the ground. To adapt it from a one to one staging to a three to one staging while awesome, would likely also add too much weight to the booster.

If you look at some of the reviews and talk of this monster (loveable though it is), the booster is said to have a problem anyway in that in the two stage version it would "glide in" and not tumble. I added some additions so that a streamer deployed at separation. It hasn't seemed to help with the overall flights though. :lol:
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#9 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by tmacklin » Tue, 24 May 16, 02:44 am

On Saturday's flight, my booster did visibly tumble with much "flutter". It received no damage other than a bit of mud on the noses of the fake pods. I think I was lucky that it landed the way it did and the grass had already grown 6-12" since it was cut and bailed. I agree about putting excess weight in the booster adding to the potential for fin damage.

Tonight I decided to remodel the booster by removing the 18mm mount and replacing it with a 24mm mount. This will give me all the boost necessary using either a C11 or D12 booster motor. I'll post some pics tomorrow and describe the process I used.

Me tired. Me need shower. Me go bed.

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#10 Re: DARS Launch at Gunter 05/21/16

Post by Ghrocketman » Sun, 29 May 16, 22:00 pm

Was the Majestic flight on a REALLY old Estes 24mm E15-6 (the ones known for "kabooming") or was it a 29mm E16-6 or a 29mm F15-6 ?
I gotta think that E15-6 was a typo.
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